Re : lower left photo. See the Boro’ Green F.C. Committee with entering supporter ( third from left ). They are, from left to right : Reg Pearce, Frank Bangay, Frank Fuller Snr., Bert Bailey, Perc and Fred Weller. Mr. Fuller was the father of former Boro’ Green and BG Albions player, George ‘Bandy’ Fuller.
I humbly apologise to members of the Pulfer family, who may be keenly studying the Boro’ Green FC Committee photo.
Since submitting that comment, I have been taking Ginko Biloba tablets that are supposed to improve memory.
At far left of the photo, is Reg Pulfer – not Pearce. However, I can’t credit the tablets for this – I saw it mentioned elsewhere.
The above-mentioned photo also appears on another local website.
The Boro’ Green FC Committee are described there as the ‘Pavilion Build Committee’.
Perc and Fred Weller are unnamed.
And after just having left the public bar of the Black Horse, Frank Fuller Snr is identified as Colonel Griggs!
It might be fair to say that if any pub were then the Black Horse would have qualified as Col Griggs’ local, though I have not measured the distance up to the Chequers. So an understandable mistake perhaps.
Agreed Ian, the Black Horse was just down the hill from Col Griggs’ residence – and another reason the mistake could be made, Mr Fuller and Col Griggs were both named Frank.
Incidentally, the step-daughter of Col Griggs, Julie Loftus-Brown, was my girlfriend for a while.
The Chequers, Crouch, would be in excess of a mile further on from Col Griggs’ “Pine Close” home.
I think if he had decided to visit a ‘local’ public house though, it would more likely have been the private bar of The Chequers.
The impact of the changes in the law make it more likely that people will be seen smoking outside and so in public. Thereby the profile seems to be raised. I’d have to admit the smell of tobacco and beer gave a certain mystique to pubs which has gone by the board. That said the stale after-smell, meaning evening clothes were to be put in the wash pile, is not something I miss.
Re : February 16th @ 9:22 pm.
Well, well, well…..
I’ve been contacted/ reminded that my former girlfriend’s name was ‘Judy’ Loftus-Brown.
Judy and I, used to attend Invicta Youth Club with David Gasson and his girlfriend, Julie Summers.
David sometimes called Julie, ‘Judy’, by mistake – and I used to give him such a hard time about this!
In the mid to late 50s, the Invicta Youth Club had quite a popular song – the tune being borrowed from ‘Down at the old Bull & Bush’ – as were some of the lyrics. The song was influenced by the non-alcoholic beverages at the YC premises.
The simpler, main verse went:
Come, come, come and make eyes at me down at the Invicta Club,
Tra, la, la, la, la,
Come, come drink some lemonade with me,
Down at the Invicta Club,
Hear Raykie on his ‘ole guitar,
Tra, la, la, la, la, la, la,
Down at the Invicta Club,
Do, do come have a cuppa tea or two,
Down at the Invicta Club.
These main verse lyrics were composed by Barry Slater in 13 seconds. And sung by him – accompanied by Mick “Strummer” Rayfield on guitar (Raykie in the song).
Further verses were more profound – Barry being an admirer of Rupert Brooke.
Re : February 3rd comment.
Bandy Fuller’s sister Nelly, mentioned that he had weighed 13 lbs at birth.
They had to apply butter to his eyes – to open them, enabling him to see.
He was not ‘bandy’ – and became a good footballer.
He stayed slim throughout his life, and was reputed to consume an average of 20 pints of ‘mild and bitter’ daily – the Boro’ Green FC dressing room was at the premises of the ‘Black Horse’ for quite a few seasons.
If it was in a literal sense, I can only think that it was from the way that he might have walked as a very chubby baby.
But I do not have a clue.
On another website, I have seen his father Frank referred to as ‘Bandy’ – but that is a mistake. (And Bandy’s nickname was not from his father).
I often wondered about this – but then on seeing Bandy (with his ‘good walk’) – those thoughts would be relegated to my subconscious.
Bandy had four brothers and one sister – maybe there are a few people out there who can help us with this mystery?
Re : Bandy’s average daily consumption of 20 pints/ mild and bitter – May 29, 2014 comment.
During the mid to late 1950s, Bandy’s whiff-plus some mornings was described as him having applied some of his “brewer’s apron” perfume again.
And the same type of recognition, when referring to others, was known as their having applied some “Bandy’s after-shave lotion”.
The originator of these ‘product’ names is believed to have been Johnnie Geddes. He was for many years foreman carpenter and joiner/ superintendant for F.P.Caine Limited, and also very knowledgeable about history and ‘Rabbie’ Burns.
Johnnie was born about 1897, and was from St Andrew’s, Scotland.
He moved down to Kent with his parents and younger brother, at the age of 12.
His father became greens/ groundskeeper at Wrotham Heath Golf Club (est. 1906). And Johnnie started caddying there, soon after he arrived.
For many years he lived at Maddox Cottages, Platt – with his wife, and son Brian.
He played for Platt Cricket Club, and I remember him mentioning a player with Roydon Hall CC (East Peckham), who had made his own artificial leg, out of wood.
Ian :
I didn’t ask Johnnie if he knew the species of wood used – and probably thought as much about the metal working parts he would have devised. I’ll have to check prostheses history for a possibility.
He worked as a carpenter and joiner at Roydon Hall – working mostly with wood, of course, and metal.
For his tools, some of the species he would probably have used, would have been: (a) planes : beech, (b) chisel handles : boxwood or ash, (c) mallet heads : beech or apple, (d) hammer/ saw handles : hickory, and (e) squares : mahogany. In those days, many tradesmen/ craftsmen made some tools and replacement parts, themselves.
Is this believable, unbelievable or what?
I was thinking – what has listening to Jock speak about those old Laing signs for 25 mins, to do with us singing the whole time? Would our singing help us to endure listening to him for all that time? But the penny has finally dropped.
During those mid-day meals at Fourways, customers sometimes included : Johnnie (born in Scotland), Jock —- (our sign recycling expert), 2 bricklayers – Jock Jack and Jock Bain, plumber – Jock Kelvie, and blacksmith – Jock Chirnside.
I wonder how much Freda made in tips?
That would be correct – the persons shown are:
R Pulfer
F Bangay
F Fuller
B Bailey
P Weller
F Weller
It’s dated 1957 and was the first home match which they won 5-0 against Paddock Wood.
I suspect if Campbell does some digging he could unearth who the goal scorers were.
Ian and Matt :
See DOCS, Football in 50s – left side photo, 12th row down from top and comment of March 27th 2014.
It was the first match after pitch levelling – BG defeating Paddock Wood by 5 goals to nil.
Of course it was Reg Pulfer at the entrance to that game! Although it had nothing to do with my huge mistake, Bob Pearce was playing for Boro’ Green that day.
Can I delay the digging for a while? These cooler, rainy Autumn days are making my back ache.
Also appearing in that game versus Paddock Wood, was right back Harold Crump.
He also appears on a team sheet, in a programme, and on a dozen or so photos from the late 1940s/ early 50s.
I have referred to him a few times as ‘Peter’. It would be great if one of his grandsons were to leave a comment – but I thought I would mention these mistakes before he does.
Thanks for the update. Let it be known that I now have WordPress as a phone app.
Like the move to music being put in mp3 format, don’t expect any increase in quality as a result.
Happy November.
Ian : Could I just mention this?
I have been asked a couple of times, if/ where “Reg Pearce” appears in photos – to compare his looks with those of former BGFC Committee member, the ever-cheerful Reg Pulfer.
If there was a Reg Pearce – sounds vaguely familiar – I cannot now place/ remember him. Although early last year, I was quite convinced that was Mr Pulfer’s name.
I cannot say I can place a Reg Pearce.
Male Pearce names from 1956 include: John, William, Edward, Robert, Thomas, and there was a Roy Peirce who lived in Station Road.
There may be other Pearces in other years but those electoral rolls are grouped by street and time is too short to go chasing what may be a ghost in more ways than one.
Ian :
See : DOCS/ Football in 50s/ Photo 5th row down, at left. Boro’ Green FC players and committee, 1949-50.
Standing at right/ end, is who I have had a certain feeling for a while, might be Reg Pearce.
Coincidentally, standing next to him is Reg Pulfer.
From your list :
Robert ‘Bob’ Pearce played mainly at outside right for BGFC.
During the early to mid 1960s, quite a few ladies from the BG area in their mid 50s and over, visited the West Country/ Widecombe-in-the-Moor on packaged bus tours (my mother included). Admittedly a long shot, a BG area lady related to Tom Pearce above, might have been among their number. That name link can mean a lot to some…..
A third septuagenarian has recently enquired why I omitted to mention another Invicta Youth Club hit from 1958 – ‘Bluebells From Basted Woods’ – also from the pen of Barry Pilkington Slater.
It was a somewhat copied version of ‘Tulips From Amsterdam’ – which was sung by Max Bygraves, and reached No. 3 on the UK pop chart that year.
A couple of Max’s other hits were ‘You’re A Pink Toothbrush, I’m A Blue Toothbrush’, and ‘When You Come To The End Of A Lollipop’. Reminding one of other impressive-sounding English language titles, thought up by William Shakespeare and Tennessee Williams.
Matt Hallett :
On this website, you have no doubt seen your grandfather Reg PULFER in several, 1948-49 to 1956-57, BG FC photos.
For a blast further into the past, did you notice at THEMED – Sport, the photo 3rd row down at right?
Reg is at the left/ end, of those who are ‘kneeling’ – Fred Weller is standing behind him.
Albions FC (BG), had defeated St Mary’s Platt in the 1935 Smith’s Junior Charity Cup Final, by 2 goals to 1.
The Final was replayed at St John’s, Sevenoaks – after a 5-5 tie.
Albions centre forward Wilcox – scored a hat trick in the tied game, and then both goals for his team in the replay.
Having submitted comments about the Invicta Youth Club in this section, it has been suggested I should mention that their football team played their home games at the Recreation Ground.
The squad was mostly made up of players from Boro’ Green FC., St. Mary’s Platt FC., and St. Georges’ (Wrotham) FC.
They played on Sunday afternoons, and had a large following of supporters.
Arguably the games most enjoyed, and competitive, were versus Penge YC., Maidstone United Youth, and Ightham YC.
Ightham won the Sevenoaks & District 1958-59, under-19 Cup Final.
Before a large crowd, Invicta YC (representing BG), had lost an extremely close semi-final match to home team Ightham.
This was an enormous upset, with BG/ Invicta YC hot favourites to lift the trophy.
Two “guest players” were standouts for Ightham in the competition.
They were Ralph Gill (of Invicta YC FC!) and Mick Taylor of Maidstone United.
Centre forward Mick, was the leading scorer – and centre half Ralph, also created and chipped in with a timely goal or 2.
Borough Green photos
Re : lower left photo. See the Boro’ Green F.C. Committee with entering supporter ( third from left ). They are, from left to right : Reg Pearce, Frank Bangay, Frank Fuller Snr., Bert Bailey, Perc and Fred Weller. Mr. Fuller was the father of former Boro’ Green and BG Albions player, George ‘Bandy’ Fuller.
I humbly apologise to members of the Pulfer family, who may be keenly studying the Boro’ Green FC Committee photo.
Since submitting that comment, I have been taking Ginko Biloba tablets that are supposed to improve memory.
At far left of the photo, is Reg Pulfer – not Pearce. However, I can’t credit the tablets for this – I saw it mentioned elsewhere.
75% of me still says that the name should be Reg Pearce – and 25% Reg Pulfer.
Perhaps one of the families will respond.
The above-mentioned photo also appears on another local website.
The Boro’ Green FC Committee are described there as the ‘Pavilion Build Committee’.
Perc and Fred Weller are unnamed.
And after just having left the public bar of the Black Horse, Frank Fuller Snr is identified as Colonel Griggs!
It might be fair to say that if any pub were then the Black Horse would have qualified as Col Griggs’ local, though I have not measured the distance up to the Chequers. So an understandable mistake perhaps.
Agreed Ian, the Black Horse was just down the hill from Col Griggs’ residence – and another reason the mistake could be made, Mr Fuller and Col Griggs were both named Frank.
Incidentally, the step-daughter of Col Griggs, Julie Loftus-Brown, was my girlfriend for a while.
The Chequers, Crouch, would be in excess of a mile further on from Col Griggs’ “Pine Close” home.
I think if he had decided to visit a ‘local’ public house though, it would more likely have been the private bar of The Chequers.
Only one-third of the gentlemen in the photo were without a cigarette.
How times change in BG – or do they?
The impact of the changes in the law make it more likely that people will be seen smoking outside and so in public. Thereby the profile seems to be raised. I’d have to admit the smell of tobacco and beer gave a certain mystique to pubs which has gone by the board. That said the stale after-smell, meaning evening clothes were to be put in the wash pile, is not something I miss.
Re : February 16th @ 9:22 pm.
Well, well, well…..
I’ve been contacted/ reminded that my former girlfriend’s name was ‘Judy’ Loftus-Brown.
Judy and I, used to attend Invicta Youth Club with David Gasson and his girlfriend, Julie Summers.
David sometimes called Julie, ‘Judy’, by mistake – and I used to give him such a hard time about this!
In the mid to late 50s, the Invicta Youth Club had quite a popular song – the tune being borrowed from ‘Down at the old Bull & Bush’ – as were some of the lyrics. The song was influenced by the non-alcoholic beverages at the YC premises.
The simpler, main verse went:
Come, come, come and make eyes at me down at the Invicta Club,
Tra, la, la, la, la,
Come, come drink some lemonade with me,
Down at the Invicta Club,
Hear Raykie on his ‘ole guitar,
Tra, la, la, la, la, la, la,
Down at the Invicta Club,
Do, do come have a cuppa tea or two,
Down at the Invicta Club.
These main verse lyrics were composed by Barry Slater in 13 seconds. And sung by him – accompanied by Mick “Strummer” Rayfield on guitar (Raykie in the song).
Further verses were more profound – Barry being an admirer of Rupert Brooke.
Re : February 3rd comment.
Bandy Fuller’s sister Nelly, mentioned that he had weighed 13 lbs at birth.
They had to apply butter to his eyes – to open them, enabling him to see.
He was not ‘bandy’ – and became a good footballer.
He stayed slim throughout his life, and was reputed to consume an average of 20 pints of ‘mild and bitter’ daily – the Boro’ Green FC dressing room was at the premises of the ‘Black Horse’ for quite a few seasons.
So is there any clue as to why or how he acquired the name Bandy?
If it was in a literal sense, I can only think that it was from the way that he might have walked as a very chubby baby.
But I do not have a clue.
On another website, I have seen his father Frank referred to as ‘Bandy’ – but that is a mistake. (And Bandy’s nickname was not from his father).
I often wondered about this – but then on seeing Bandy (with his ‘good walk’) – those thoughts would be relegated to my subconscious.
Bandy had four brothers and one sister – maybe there are a few people out there who can help us with this mystery?
Re : Bandy’s average daily consumption of 20 pints/ mild and bitter – May 29, 2014 comment.
During the mid to late 1950s, Bandy’s whiff-plus some mornings was described as him having applied some of his “brewer’s apron” perfume again.
And the same type of recognition, when referring to others, was known as their having applied some “Bandy’s after-shave lotion”.
The originator of these ‘product’ names is believed to have been Johnnie Geddes. He was for many years foreman carpenter and joiner/ superintendant for F.P.Caine Limited, and also very knowledgeable about history and ‘Rabbie’ Burns.
Re : Johnnie Geddes/ previous comment.
Johnnie was born about 1897, and was from St Andrew’s, Scotland.
He moved down to Kent with his parents and younger brother, at the age of 12.
His father became greens/ groundskeeper at Wrotham Heath Golf Club (est. 1906). And Johnnie started caddying there, soon after he arrived.
For many years he lived at Maddox Cottages, Platt – with his wife, and son Brian.
He played for Platt Cricket Club, and I remember him mentioning a player with Roydon Hall CC (East Peckham), who had made his own artificial leg, out of wood.
“who had made his own artificial leg, out of wood.” Called?
Ian :
I didn’t ask Johnnie if he knew the species of wood used – and probably thought as much about the metal working parts he would have devised. I’ll have to check prostheses history for a possibility.
He worked as a carpenter and joiner at Roydon Hall – working mostly with wood, of course, and metal.
For his tools, some of the species he would probably have used, would have been: (a) planes : beech, (b) chisel handles : boxwood or ash, (c) mallet heads : beech or apple, (d) hammer/ saw handles : hickory, and (e) squares : mahogany. In those days, many tradesmen/ craftsmen made some tools and replacement parts, themselves.
I was thinking of a man with a wooden leg called Smith. I don’t know what the other one was called.
I thought probably that I shouldn’t mention it – but the man’s nickname was ‘Long John Silver’ – and he used to have a good laugh about it.
Ian : Your posts of Sept 6th.
Man oh man – you sure put on a clinic.
That is a great combination – well done!
Ian :
Re : My sort of long-winded post, Sept 6th @ 2:14 pm.
This, and the voting north of the border today, reminds me of a noontime break in Fourways Café.
A former Laing Construction worker had commenced employment with F.P.Caine Ltd that day.
As they were ordering from Freda, Johnnie asked Jock —– what his previous employer did with their ‘old Laing signs’.
As he finished his dessert, Jock was still replying to the question.
I hope that meanwhile everybody else was singing
Is this believable, unbelievable or what?
I was thinking – what has listening to Jock speak about those old Laing signs for 25 mins, to do with us singing the whole time? Would our singing help us to endure listening to him for all that time? But the penny has finally dropped.
During those mid-day meals at Fourways, customers sometimes included : Johnnie (born in Scotland), Jock —- (our sign recycling expert), 2 bricklayers – Jock Jack and Jock Bain, plumber – Jock Kelvie, and blacksmith – Jock Chirnside.
I wonder how much Freda made in tips?
Note to self: Be sure to add in foot notes for cryptic remarks.
I am sure a few acquaintances may well have been forgotten truth be told, unlike the way the song may tell it.
I’m positive that’s my Grandfather Reg Pulfer in your picture. I’ve never seen that one before.
That would be correct – the persons shown are:
R Pulfer
F Bangay
F Fuller
B Bailey
P Weller
F Weller
It’s dated 1957 and was the first home match which they won 5-0 against Paddock Wood.
I suspect if Campbell does some digging he could unearth who the goal scorers were.
Ian and Matt :
See DOCS, Football in 50s – left side photo, 12th row down from top and comment of March 27th 2014.
It was the first match after pitch levelling – BG defeating Paddock Wood by 5 goals to nil.
Of course it was Reg Pulfer at the entrance to that game! Although it had nothing to do with my huge mistake, Bob Pearce was playing for Boro’ Green that day.
Can I delay the digging for a while? These cooler, rainy Autumn days are making my back ache.
Also appearing in that game versus Paddock Wood, was right back Harold Crump.
He also appears on a team sheet, in a programme, and on a dozen or so photos from the late 1940s/ early 50s.
I have referred to him a few times as ‘Peter’. It would be great if one of his grandsons were to leave a comment – but I thought I would mention these mistakes before he does.
Thanks for the update. Let it be known that I now have WordPress as a phone app.
Like the move to music being put in mp3 format, don’t expect any increase in quality as a result.
Happy November.
Ian : Could I just mention this?
I have been asked a couple of times, if/ where “Reg Pearce” appears in photos – to compare his looks with those of former BGFC Committee member, the ever-cheerful Reg Pulfer.
If there was a Reg Pearce – sounds vaguely familiar – I cannot now place/ remember him. Although early last year, I was quite convinced that was Mr Pulfer’s name.
I cannot say I can place a Reg Pearce.
Male Pearce names from 1956 include: John, William, Edward, Robert, Thomas, and there was a Roy Peirce who lived in Station Road.
There may be other Pearces in other years but those electoral rolls are grouped by street and time is too short to go chasing what may be a ghost in more ways than one.
Ian :
See : DOCS/ Football in 50s/ Photo 5th row down, at left. Boro’ Green FC players and committee, 1949-50.
Standing at right/ end, is who I have had a certain feeling for a while, might be Reg Pearce.
Coincidentally, standing next to him is Reg Pulfer.
From your list :
Robert ‘Bob’ Pearce played mainly at outside right for BGFC.
During the early to mid 1960s, quite a few ladies from the BG area in their mid 50s and over, visited the West Country/ Widecombe-in-the-Moor on packaged bus tours (my mother included). Admittedly a long shot, a BG area lady related to Tom Pearce above, might have been among their number. That name link can mean a lot to some…..
Re : My February 20, 2014 comment.
A third septuagenarian has recently enquired why I omitted to mention another Invicta Youth Club hit from 1958 – ‘Bluebells From Basted Woods’ – also from the pen of Barry Pilkington Slater.
It was a somewhat copied version of ‘Tulips From Amsterdam’ – which was sung by Max Bygraves, and reached No. 3 on the UK pop chart that year.
A couple of Max’s other hits were ‘You’re A Pink Toothbrush, I’m A Blue Toothbrush’, and ‘When You Come To The End Of A Lollipop’. Reminding one of other impressive-sounding English language titles, thought up by William Shakespeare and Tennessee Williams.
Matt Hallett :
On this website, you have no doubt seen your grandfather Reg PULFER in several, 1948-49 to 1956-57, BG FC photos.
For a blast further into the past, did you notice at THEMED – Sport, the photo 3rd row down at right?
Reg is at the left/ end, of those who are ‘kneeling’ – Fred Weller is standing behind him.
Albions FC (BG), had defeated St Mary’s Platt in the 1935 Smith’s Junior Charity Cup Final, by 2 goals to 1.
The Final was replayed at St John’s, Sevenoaks – after a 5-5 tie.
Albions centre forward Wilcox – scored a hat trick in the tied game, and then both goals for his team in the replay.
Matt!
Is your Mum – or Aunt, Sylvia PULFER?
I’ve just remembered her name! How is she doing?
Having submitted comments about the Invicta Youth Club in this section, it has been suggested I should mention that their football team played their home games at the Recreation Ground.
The squad was mostly made up of players from Boro’ Green FC., St. Mary’s Platt FC., and St. Georges’ (Wrotham) FC.
They played on Sunday afternoons, and had a large following of supporters.
Arguably the games most enjoyed, and competitive, were versus Penge YC., Maidstone United Youth, and Ightham YC.
Ightham won the Sevenoaks & District 1958-59, under-19 Cup Final.
Before a large crowd, Invicta YC (representing BG), had lost an extremely close semi-final match to home team Ightham.
This was an enormous upset, with BG/ Invicta YC hot favourites to lift the trophy.
Two “guest players” were standouts for Ightham in the competition.
They were Ralph Gill (of Invicta YC FC!) and Mick Taylor of Maidstone United.
Centre forward Mick, was the leading scorer – and centre half Ralph, also created and chipped in with a timely goal or 2.